有贊沈淦：代碼是一種信仰，破圈才能突圍 | TGO專訪

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"本期專訪嘉賓："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"沈淦（懷民），有贊技術 VP，TGO 鯤鵬會（杭州）負責人；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"資深互聯網技術專家，擁有 20 多年的團隊管理經驗，曾在螞蟻金服、泰金所、大搜車等公司任技術總監、CTO，跨越互聯網金融、汽車、零售等多個垂直領域。在大搜車任技術 VP 期間，經歷了從 120 人技術團隊到 1000 人團隊快速增長的管理體系升級。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.infoq.cn\/resource\/image\/ae\/6a\/ae67c1cf56d398990bfd91137e25936a.png","alt":null,"title":"","style":[{"key":"width","value":"50%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":"","fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"有一個故事是這樣的："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"一個人去參加一個技術團隊的會議，會上有人滔滔不絕，有人專門提反對意見，還有一個人幾乎沉默不語，在本子上寫寫畫畫，然後這個人突然說了幾個關鍵的觀點。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"問題來了，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"誰是團隊的技術領導核心？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"所有人都會覺得是最後提出真知灼見的那個人，因爲他一直在思考，在給關鍵意見，而不是人云亦云，也不是隻會唱反調。但是反思日常工作中，可能大部分人會覺得滔滔不絕的那個人纔是技術管理者。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"這就考驗技術管理者的洞察了。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"這個故事來自傑拉爾德·溫伯格的《成爲技術領導者》的開篇，也是對沈淦思考方式和工作落地影響很大的一本書。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2019 年，還在大搜車的沈淦在接受 TGO 的採訪中分享了 1000 人團隊的管理祕籍，概括爲以下四點："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“1.組織架構先行：先有靠譜的組織架構，纔能有靠譜的人；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2.培養團隊的執行力：包括硬實力、軟實力。硬實力主要是技術專業技能；軟實力主要包括管理規劃、管理團隊、管理項目等技術管理能力；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" 3.目標導向：在團隊之中正確的落地 OKR；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" 4.在線：第一，一切不能錄入線上系統的行爲都無法客觀評價；第二，一切無法評價結果的行爲都是耍流氓。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"兩年過去了，沈淦現在在有贊仍然管理着將近千人的團隊，對於技術團隊管理，他有了更多鞭辟入裏的見解。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"01 技術管理者的思維進階"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/infoq\/a6\/a682624c3e4ab2f0afdd3f09bd8f4f22.webp","alt":null,"title":"2020 年 10 月，沈淦在 GTLC 全球技術領導力峯會 · 杭州站做分享","style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":null,"fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"技術好和管理好並不是一回事。技術管理的難度在於技術管理者受到的專業訓練是技術而非管理。因此，技術領導者需要花更多功夫去系統性學習，補齊管理的短板。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"如果將團隊規模進行分類，大致可以分爲早期 30 人，中期 70 人，後期 300、600 到 900 人不等。不同階段和規模的團隊的管理思維有差異，對團隊領導者的要求區別也非常大。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"「我遇到過一個研發只有 50 多人的團隊，他們和我討論要不要建中臺？我的建議是先別想着建中臺，能把業務做好就差不多了。」"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"在沈淦看來，早期小團隊的核心目標應該是搞定業務。規模再大一點時候才上升爲淺管理，這個層次上的管理核心有三句話："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第一句話是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"從懂做事到懂管理；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第二句話是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"從親力親爲到樹立榜樣。"},{"type":"text","text":"親力親爲是管理者什麼都做，自己成爲團隊裏最牛的人，誰不會做就自己上；而樹立榜樣，管理者要往後撤一撤，讓其他成員成爲團隊中的榜樣；"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第三句話是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"從追求極致到多元思維。"},{"type":"text","text":"追求極致是管理者按照自己熟悉的方式，將一個東西打磨得越來越好，但這並非是高階管理者鼓勵的方式。假如從 A 到 B 之間有個鴻溝，把坑填了過去還是繞一圈過去？這時就需要多元思維。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"沈淦舉了一個例子說明多元思維對高級團隊管理的重要性。如「工作中交給一個人一件事，但如果對方覺得難度太大不太情願幹，甚至有點牴觸。一般來講，如果是直線思維，就是讓他要麼接受，要麼不接受，然後跟他反覆 PK。但優秀的領導不會這樣，他會說，好！那我找個人賽馬，把這個活切一切，交給另外一個同事幹。那人一看其他人幹得這麼起勁，他自己也會慌，自然就改變了態度和行爲。」"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"02 代碼是一種信仰破圈才能突圍"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"雖然帶領着千人技術團隊，但沈淦認爲自己只是一個實在又標準的“碼農”。二十多年來，他依然堅持着寫代碼的習慣，最近他在給團隊做 Demo，用 Error Prone（Google 出品的一個框架工具）來進行深度代碼風格檢查。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"可能是出於技術人內心的執念和信仰，沈淦相信，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"技術的完美並不體現在技術框架多華麗上，技術最終產生的價值是代碼，"},{"type":"text","text":"而其它東西都是階段性的。「一個真正技術人，最後還是要依據每一行代碼的好壞來評價。」"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"正是秉持着這份對代碼的深深的熱愛和敬畏，沈淦覺得追求技術的完美應該是無止境的。2019 年 11 月，他在 GTLC 全球技術領導力峯會上提出「技術 leader 沒有天花板」的觀點。然而，作爲一名技術人，沈淦像大多數程序員一樣也曾遇到過迷惘期。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2011 年，沈淦在金仕達（國內金融領域軟件供應商）做技術總監，常常與大型銀行項目打交道，他感到困惑，雖然專注於技術，自己卻不太像社會人，好像在哪都不是那麼合羣。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"人很多時候的選擇是被整個環境裹挾着往前走，自己內心的選擇往往容易被忽視。沈淦當時並沒想明白一件事，他是打算一輩子搞技術，還是隻是把技術當成謀生的手段。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“我中間也很搖擺，後面覺得自己就是來幹技術的，就不用那麼糾結，沒有必要跟自己過去比，跟周圍別人比。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"沈淦後來想清楚了，他想做一個純粹的技術人。“我的人生理想是見證這個神奇的世界，有更多的體驗，別人認爲我是一個真誠的值得交往的人就可以了。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"內心上，更早地看清楚自己最內心的底色是什麼，方法上不斷地破圈，突破自己的朋友圈，"},{"type":"text","text":"不斷接觸和自己不同的人羣，是沈淦走出瓶頸的方式。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.infoq.cn\/resource\/image\/f6\/a2\/f63344d9802f3026da4e736efeae9da2.png","alt":null,"title":"2020 年 5 月，沈淦參加《深度領導力》作者陳瑋新書發佈會，右一是沈淦。","style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":"","fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"當被問及人生中最有成就感的事時，沈淦的回答讓人出乎意料。他坦言自己很普通，大部分時間並沒有覺得做成了什麼事情而感到特別自豪。可能是因爲習慣於「做事之前對自己並沒有什麼期待」的性格，沈淦更想用「沒有成就感，參與感更強」來總結自己的人生。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"03 堅持長期主義關注下一個增長點私域流量"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2019 年汽車行業出現斷崖式打擊，沈淦離開大搜車加入中國最大的雲端商業服務商有贊科技。「"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"崇尚長期主義，不在意一朝一夕的眼前得失。"},{"type":"text","text":"」是有贊吸引沈淦的地方。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"在大衆眼裏，有贊是一個開店工具，沈淦認爲有贊遠非如此。相對於國內其他工具型 SaaS，有讚的特殊之處在於它一個交易型的電商 SaaS 平臺，這種模式不光有產品，還要有服務和運營，要和商家一起陪跑，共同成長。"}]},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.infoq.cn\/resource\/image\/55\/9a\/552e17d41f3b81241ce140129d904e9a.jpg","alt":null,"title":"2020 年 7 月，有贊數據團隊邁出商業化生態步伐，沈淦在合作發佈會上發言。","style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":"","fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"投身零售行業後，沈淦對營銷方式有了更深的理解，他現在比較看好私域經濟。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"「雖然目前多數電商收入來源是與投放密切相關的平臺流量生意，私域貢獻並非最大，但私域會是未來的一個新的增長點。」"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"這樣的判斷來源於沈凎對流量經濟的理解。他發現中國的流量場有兩個：一個場是圍繞着交易場所進行，如天貓這樣的電商品牌；另一個場是連接人和貨的各種數字化的觸達手段，如小程序、移動 APP。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"在這場數字化競爭上，中國的技術和模式超前，也將消費者“收割”得非常乾淨，但圍繞場的交易已做到極致，發揮空間並不大。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"「現在商家不是鋪天蓋地給用戶廣告，而需要精準打擊，轉變爲以人爲中心，先理解消費者是什麼樣的人，訴求是什麼，再去給什麼。」"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"的確，在各大平臺流量越來越貴的背景下，商家得更聰明靈活地運用各個平臺的流量，掌握每個流量的特點，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"從場的數字化轉變爲人的數字化，才能佔據流量經濟的高點。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"爲什麼私域變得如此重要？沈凎解釋到，用戶不是平臺的，而是商家的。不管是私域還是全域，最後都要往復購、增購、裂變方向走，考慮到做增量的同時，獲客成本、客單價和 ROI 比單純買流量便宜，這必然導致商家後期重度投入。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"「舉例來說，有贊服務的一個百購行業的客戶，他們以往的導購方式是導購員留下客戶電話或微信，有好東西就給對方推，這種方式對導購的業績激勵並不直觀；上了私域後就不同了，不僅導購激勵在線化，還增加了吸粉指標，導購可以再拿一份收入，大大增強了導購員發展業績的動力。」"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"順着這條邏輯，私域將消費者系統沉澱下來轉換成會員，平臺再給會員推更多東西，如新活動、新產品和優惠券，在“疫情”期間，很多門店銷售很差，有贊通過這種導購、會員復購、增購的方式，幫助商家銷售業績上漲，對沖了原本比較差的門店生意。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"但私域從概念到全場景的落地，實現快速增長還有一段距離。"},{"type":"text","text":"沈淦認爲，私域還處於早期，大部分商家更擅長玩了十幾年的流量打法，這個行業需要一定時間集體學習運營和私域。雖然很多人知道私域是個好東西，是未來的一個新的增長點，但如何像流量生意那樣精細化運營還有待探索。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}}]}