端點科技吳小偉：提升研發效能，需要回歸到組織裏看整體｜QCon

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在企業數字化轉型的浪潮下，無論是傳統行業還是互聯網行業，研發效能都是一個備受關注的大熱點。但在這樣的時代背景下，依舊有人並沒有真正理解“效能”是什麼？它與效率的區別又是什麼？市場上的研效工具層出不窮，企業該如何結合自身架構進行選擇？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"帶着這些疑問，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#303030","name":"user"}}],"text":"InfoQ 記者有幸在"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/qcon.infoq.cn\/2021\/shanghai?utm_source=infoq&utm_medium=conference","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"QCon 2021 全球軟件開發大會"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#303030","name":"user"}}],"text":"上，採訪到了"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"端點科技"}]},{"type":"text","text":"合夥人兼資深技術專家吳小偉老師，和他聊了聊與研發效能相關的話題。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"以下是視頻採訪的全部內容，爲方便讀者查看，視頻下方也附上了文字內容。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"embedcomp","attrs":{"type":"video","data":{"id":"431627","name":"端點_2.mp4","poster":"","url":"https:\/\/media001.geekbang.org\/ae98d61fc28c4cc4bed98dc2fd42e1a0\/ef07efde71d0404ca0f10c0d10f0983f-72b266acb43e085e23bd3c5a3c9db932-sd.m3u8"}}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"請吳老師先和InfoQ的觀衆朋友做下自我介紹。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我之前在阿里的花名是一嘯，在阿里的八年時間一直做基礎軟件的研發，比如大數據相關的軟件、中間件，包括數據庫也有涉及，更多地是在做容器技術。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"關於爲何選擇創業，相信大家都能看出來：在過去十年中，ToC的市場特別好，但最近ToB市場變得異常火爆。所以，我個人也希望能夠投身到ToB領域中，2018年我就選擇從阿里出來，圍繞研發平臺繼續做基礎軟件。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"目前，研發效能成了行業內備受關注的領域，包括騰訊雲、阿里等很多大廠也都在該領域紛紛發力，各大廠商開始關注研發效能的原因您認爲是什麼？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"企業的數字化轉型是當今時代的大潮。轉型之前，企業的業務系統大多屬於穩態業務，即長時間處於不變化、非變化狀態。但當數字化轉型過後，這些業務變得更加敏態，這就意味着對業務系統的快速迭代、快速創新能力的要求越來越高，而數字化系統的底層驅動力一定是研發，各大廠商切入研發管理這個領域也都是想把握這個底層的驅動力。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"除此以外，在數字化轉型之後，很多做傳統業務的公司會變成一個科技公司，但IT人員的規模則是這類公司與科技公司最大的不同點。此時，研發效能就發揮着更大的作用，它的未來想象空間非常大，這也是爲什麼各大廠商包括我們在內，都在研發效能賽道上努力往前面衝的另一大原因。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"現在市場上研發工具越來越多，和其它同類型的產品相比，"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/product\/5","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"Erda"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"有哪些差異化的優勢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我們在做Erda的時候，市面上已經有很多同類的產品，這裏有四點想跟大家分享："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第一點，Erda和大多數同類產品相比，並沒有集成很多開源軟件來堆砌、打造一個解決方案，我們想通過自研真正做出一個產品。目前市場上很多同類產品都在集成J"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#4d4d4d","name":"user"}}],"text":"enkins"},{"type":"text","text":"來做CI\/CD，而這部分我們完全都是自研的，一方面，自研對基數的掌控力更強，另一方面則可以讓產品的邏輯和體驗更加一致。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第二點，Erda的架構非常輕量，尤其在私有化交付部署時，對客戶資源的要求非常低，並且部署的效率很快。比如，我們可以通過三臺虛擬機把整個生產系統平臺部署起來，甚至如果爲了Demo試用，在本地筆記本上都可以跑起來。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第三點，我們認爲要全局提效不能只做某個單點，所以Erda覆蓋了研發過程的全鏈路，包括項目管理、CI\/CD流程、自動化測試、自動化部署以及中間件部署。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第四點，Erda覆蓋了目前市場上主流的雲廠商，能夠幫助企業跨雲遷移並更好地運行在多雲的環境上，這是我們從設計之初就在考慮的關鍵指標。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"隨着研效工具的數量越來越多，企業也面臨着諸多選擇，企業該如何結合自身架構來選擇研效工具？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"如果企業還沒有完成雲原生容器架構轉型，那麼它還屬於傳統的IT架構，在選擇研效工具時，更多地會接觸J"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#4d4d4d","name":"user"}}],"text":"enkins這樣的"},{"type":"text","text":"傳統研效工具。反之，如果企業已經到了容器化的環境，就需要考慮Erda這種從雲原生、容器體系裏成長起來的研效工具。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"迴歸到企業層面，仍有很多人並未真正理解研發效能，且經常把效能與效率畫等號，對這個問題您有什麼看法？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"確實有這個現象。我們平時經常提到“效率”這個詞，但效率其實是單一的指標，它僅僅聚焦在一個單點的指標維度。比如，判定工作效率高不高的標準是你能否在工作時間內完成分配的工作，而效能並不能用一個或者兩個指標來衡量，這裏包含項目管理、執行，一直到整個研發過程CI\/CD以及自動化部署。所以，想真正提升企業的研發效能，需要回歸到組織裏去看整體。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"前不久，我們關注到Erda也將核心代碼全部開源了，請您詳細聊聊開源的初衷是什麼？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我們通過吸收開源社區的紅利，用四、五年的時間打造出Erda這樣優秀的產品，所以我們也希望能把它回饋到開源社區，被更多同行去使用，讓更多的人不需要從零開始造一個新的輪子出來，這其實是很大的初衷。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"同時，我們也知道一個產品要保持很高的進化速度、競爭力，需要更多不同場景、不同類型的人蔘與、共建，所以我們希望讓使用者變得更多，並站在需求方的角度來改進Erda。當我們能夠集百家所長，就有可能把Erda推向一個新的高度。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：打造開源生態與人、社區、管理等因素密不可分，基於開源生態，吳老師有怎樣的看法和見解？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"首先回歸到代碼層面，端點內部的代碼與社區代碼要保持內外一致，如果端點內部有一份代碼，社區又有一份新的代碼，這是特別傷害社區建設的一件事情。目前我們整個研發團隊的工作已經全部轉移到Github，這是非常關鍵的一步。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"其次，爲了治理好整個社區，給大家提供更好的文檔，降低入門的門檻，我們也組建了專門的團隊來服務開源項目。同時，開源社區最重要的因素之一就是人，人是能夠超越代碼的。所以，我們的運營團隊就需要把大家連接在一起，做志趣相投的一件事情。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"最後，關於開源項目如何度過冷啓動期的問題，我認爲最關鍵的事情就是不要貪心，沉下心來維護好三五個人的核心小圈子，再讓它慢慢變大影響新的人。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：在雲計算產業融合的背景下，各個廠商間的業務互相滲透，PaaS 市場的競爭越來越激烈了，對 PaaS 市場的未來您抱有怎樣的看法？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吳小偉："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在未來，多雲、混合雲一定會成爲非常關鍵的場景，如果能夠基於多雲的環境構建PaaS，那麼一定有非常大的機會。此外，由於aPaaS才真正解決了生產力問題，以前寫一個軟件可能要一萬行代碼，現在只需要寫一千行代碼，甚至未來可能出現更顛覆式創造軟件的方式，所以aPaaS這層也是一個非常大的賽道。今天出現的很多LowCode平臺都在做這一層，所以在我們公司，Erda是聚焦於做iPaaS這一層，來解決底層基礎設施、研發效能問題。在Erda之上，我們還將發力的重點聚焦在了aPaaS層面，推出了"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/product\/2","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"Trantor"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：面向未來，軟件架構的複雜性、軟件規模以及研發團隊的規模都將持續上漲，您認爲行業會面臨怎樣的挑戰？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"吳小偉：應用層軟件越來越複雜的趨勢是不可避免的，在實現數字化過後，企業從供應鏈到銷售端的全鏈路會變得很複雜，這對底層平臺來說是一個全新的挑戰。所以不管是Erda還是同類的研效工具，未來能否管理更大規模的軟件複雜度，管理更大的研發團隊，必然會成爲市場對我們的要求。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"但軟件越來越複雜這個趨勢能否被改變纔是更重要的事，未來能否出現一些顛覆性的技術，可以用更簡單的方式來研發軟件，即一個人可以完成十個人的研發工作，這其實才能把軟件的複雜性和研發團隊的規模降低。包括我們剛纔提到，未來很多傳統行業的公司都可能轉型成爲科技公司，他們的研發人員應該不會從底層開始寫代碼，而會站在最頂端，用最簡單的方式去寫他們想要的軟件代碼。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我個人認爲從業人員更應該降低軟件複雜度，而不是軟件變複雜了，我就要提供一個更強大的平臺，這治標不治本。今天人工智能發展也挺快的，某一天是否可以用人工智能的技術更好地寫代碼也是極有可能的。所以，我覺得未來軟件研發應該會出現新的方向，而不是像今天這樣任其演變地更復雜。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：謝謝吳老師接受採訪，也再一次歡迎您參加Qcon，期待下一次還能在Qcon見到您。"}]}]}