Apache HBase項目主席張鐸:敢說和工程師形象都是我給自己打造的人設

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"作者 | 蔡芳芳"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"採訪嘉賓 | 張鐸"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“我馬上就要37歲了,我也不清楚自己到底還能堅持奮鬥幾年,指不定再幹幾年突然就失去動力了,所以我不想把時間浪費在大公司裏和別人拼看誰更能熬。”"}]}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"2021年4月,張鐸在自己的知乎上發佈了一篇文章"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/zhuanlan.zhihu.com\/p\/361185657","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"《關於離職的一些覆盤》"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":",官宣自己從待了5年的小米離職,加入神策擔任首席架構師。文章裏,張鐸詳細回顧了自己離職的原因和得到的教訓,並非常直白地指出了小米組織架構和管理人員存在的問題,直白到讓人好奇“這真的不會被公關找過來?”的程度。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"這篇文章在知乎上收穫了近千贊同和100多條評論,很多知乎網友在評論中直呼“鐸神真性情中人”。畢竟敢於直接跟公司領導“掀桌子”的人很少,敢把“掀桌子”的過程記錄下來並公開發出來的人就更少了,何況這公司也不是什麼沒人知道的小公司。但其實,這只是張鐸習慣的一種覆盤和表達方式而已,他經常提到這樣一句話:“成功的經驗難以複製,失敗的教訓則可以避免。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"不管是工作經歷,還是參與開源的經歷,張鐸認爲自己都還沒有所謂的最有成就感或最有挫敗感的事情。前者,他覺得只有等到真的決定說這個事情不做了,比如退休了,才能蓋棺定論,看最有成就感的事是什麼;後者,對他來說只要沒做成肯定會想各種辦法去做,最後實在做不成的,只要分析了原因也就認了。“比如16年我去了小米沒有去頭條,這個事情你怎麼看都覺得很虧,對吧?但是我後來分析過,如果把我放回到那個時間點,根據我當時已知的信息,你讓我選10次,估計9次都是選小米不會選頭條。所以選錯了就錯了,沒什麼好執念的。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"近日,InfoQ有幸採訪到了張鐸,目前他在神策還處於適應階段,不過也已經開始着手推進將開源項目Impala的內部改進梳理合並回社區,以及公司內部開源文化培育等工作。在兩個多小時的交流裏,我們聊了他待過的幾家公司、他在開源社區做的事情、他所看到的國內開源發展現狀,也聊到了他寫的離職覆盤文章。對於到底選大公司好還是選小公司好,他也基於自己的親身經歷給出了非常實在的建議。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“每個人都會有自己的人設”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸在知乎上有2.5萬粉絲,回答過的問題數量一共有145個。翻一翻張鐸在知乎上回答過的問題,就能很容易看出來,“直白敢言”是他一直以來的風格。雖然筆者在採訪前對此就有所耳聞,但採訪中仍然好幾次因爲他的回答之實在而驚訝。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"當被問及“在神策是否不會像在大公司那麼折騰”時,張鐸表示:"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“本質上來說,大公司有很多時候會出現人比事多的情況。這個是沒法避免的,即便整個大公司看起來事很多幹不完,但因爲大公司很大,在很多局部總會出現人比事多的情況。人比事多怎麼辦?你怎麼證明自己比別人強?這個時候靠做事就不夠了,因爲反正事不夠,大家都能做,那怎麼辦?就開始拼別的方向,比如你是不是向上管理做得更好,或者加班時間更長、文章寫得更漂亮,又或者做PPT你做5頁我做50頁,最終就發現開始捲起來了。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"你在小公司,反正在神策目前這個階段,互相補位都補不過來,業務發展很快,客戶越來越多,產品和技術一堆活幹不完。沒人會去想着搞什麼向上管理,老闆也懶得讓你向上管理,你別出簍子就行。所以在這邊就不存在要費神想半天彙報關係、要單純地證明我做得比你更好等這種情況,沒有功夫考慮這些事情。”"}]}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"而關於“選大公司還是選小公司”的問題,張鐸的回答同樣十分直白:"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“反正所有年輕人問我的時候,我永遠都是建議年輕人,你剛畢業的時候去大公司看看,不要先到小公司。大公司各種事情都比較正規,會有很正規的流程框架來培養你,你能看到整個公司正常運轉模式下應該是什麼樣的,你也能知道比較規範的代碼是怎麼寫的。首先得把這些基本的東西練好,把整個技術品位培養好,然後再去小公司,你才能知道小公司很多做法是不得已的,因爲它資源不夠,人的能力也不行,很多事情就只能糙着來,但並不代表這些做法就是對的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"年輕人進小公司發現各種亂糟糟的,最後可能覺得好像就應該是這樣,一旦品位壞了之後,整個思維就很難轉過來了。當然有一類人例外,就是本身在學校的時候就很有想法,想着要自己出來創業,不想搞技術的,那就可以直接去小公司。因爲這類人最需要的是摸清楚一個創業公司、自己當老闆,需要懂些什麼、有哪些事情需要管,這些去大公司肯定學不到。大公司很多事情都有人幫你做好了,只有在小公司才能發現當老闆有多少麻煩事情。不過這類人很少很少。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"對於大部分想要走技術路線穩步發展的年輕人,我還是建議先去大公司。等整個品位都建立得比較好了,知道做事應該怎麼做,技術也練得不錯了,這時候再按照你的喜好,看是換個大公司繼續做,還是換個小公司,都可以試一下。”"}]}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸認爲,每個人都會有自己的人設,這也對應了他怎麼說話、怎麼做事。而他一直維持的人設就是比較“敢說”,所以一直這麼說話,大家也不會覺得奇怪。他特別強調,雖然“敢說”,還是會遵守一定的底線,比如前面那篇離職覆盤文章裏,一不會提具體的人名,二不會用很明確的主觀評價來給人定性。不過他不確定這種發言風格會持續多久,“或許等哪天所處的位置更高了,就不能這麼說話了。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"“開源”也是張鐸身上非常重要的一個標籤,而這於他同樣是一個“人設”。早在2015年,張鐸就成爲了大數據領域知名開源項目Apache HBase項目的Committer,2016年成爲Apache HBase項目在大陸的第一位PMC成員;2019年成爲Apache HBase項目的主席,同時也是Apache Hadoop項目的Branch Committer;2020年成爲Apache軟件基金會Member。其中,2018年在Apache軟件基金會全球近7000名Committer中,張鐸的貢獻數量排名第三,全年一共提交了1956次Commits。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/infoq\/4e\/4e8b9b82edbca8f8ef1ef27c919435b6.png","alt":null,"title":null,"style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":null,"fromPaste":true,"pastePass":true}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#a5a5a5","name":"user"}}],"text":"當時外媒專門對2018年Apache軟件基金會貢獻數量排名前五的Committer做了一個採訪"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#a5a5a5","name":"user"}}],"text":"(來源:"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/techmonitor.ai\/techonology\/software\/apache-top-5","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"https:\/\/techmonitor.ai\/techonology\/software\/apache-top-5"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#a5a5a5","name":"user"}}],"text":")"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"對張鐸來說,開源最吸引他的地方就是能夠盡情地寫代碼。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"“如果沒有開源,公司裏面我這個級別以上的人,基本不可能再寫代碼了。因爲一天到晚各種各樣的事情纏着你,一天到晚都是會。原來在小米的時候,後面我也不太敢寫公司的代碼了,因爲可能寫不了幾行就被人拉走了,然後其他同學也不知道該拿我負責的這塊代碼怎麼辦,是接着寫還是重新寫,肯定會block大家的進度。這就導致非開源的代碼我基本上不可能再寫。但開源的項目我還是隨時可以寫,只要下班以後有一點空閒時間,我就可以寫。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸喜歡寫代碼,而且他認爲一直寫代碼對於維持自己的技術感覺很重要,“但凡很長時間不寫之後,對於整個架構設計之類的敏感度肯定會變低。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"對於普通開發者\/工程師來說,參與開源也有非常實際的好處。張鐸表示,如果真的說得功利一點,參與開源肯定是能夠打響自己的名聲,很多時候如果真的能夠參與一個開源項目並且做得很好,比如成爲Committer或提交了多少PR。面試的時候只要把這些往簡歷上一列,基本上面試官就默認你不會很差,可能聊一聊就給發Offer了,但如果沒有參與開源的這些經歷,就得花費很大的精力去證明自己的能力到底怎麼樣。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"而對張鐸而言,參與開源還有一個很大的好處,就是能繼續維持“還在一線寫代碼的工程師”的形象,這會讓帶一個工程師團隊變得比較容易。在他看來,管理最重要的一點就是要讓大家信任,大家願意聽你的、願意去幹這是第一步,這個搞定之後纔好說別的;如果事情都推進不下去、團隊沒有人信任你,這個團隊就很難管。“我能繼續維持我工程師的人設,大家天然就願意相信我,因爲他們覺得我也是工程師,而不會認爲說我是一個老闆、完全不懂技術,天然對於我管理上就是有好處的。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸補充道,如果不花精力在開源上去維持住工程師人設,就得把這部分精力花在各種管理理論、管理方法之類的培訓上。“如果我沒有打造好工程師這個人設的話,管理學這邊我就得花好大的勁,反正都要花精力,我還是更喜歡寫代碼,在這邊多投一些精力也挺好。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“我和小米是互相成就”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","n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Patch"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" 是在2014年9月,當時他在工作過程中發現,HBase 有時候會丟失數據,確認自己的代碼沒問題後,他開始懷疑是 HBase 的 bug,定位問題後就立即對該問題進行了修復。當時小米的馮宏華已經是 HBase 的 Committer,也正好是張鐸的學長,在馮的鼓勵下,張鐸把自己發現的問題提交給了官方。提交後很短時間內,這個"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/issues.apache.org\/jira\/browse\/HBASE-12078","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"修復"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"就被HBase方接收了,中間張鐸只對代碼說明的格式做了非常簡單的修改。這次比想象中簡單得多的第一次提交,正式開啓了張鐸在HBase開源社區的闖關之路。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"從第一次提交Patch到成爲Apache HBase項目的Committer,到成爲PMC成員,再到成爲項目主席,張鐸花了4年左右的時間。在這期間,張鐸離開豌豆莢加入了小米,當初鼓勵他提交Patch的馮宏華則成了他的直屬領導。在逐步深入參與HBase開源社區的同時,張鐸也成爲了奠定小米在開源領域和Apache HBase江湖地位的核心人物之一,後來他又擔任小米開源委員會主席,總體負責小米開源工作的規劃與推進。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"雖然從小米離開的時候並不是太愉快,但總結過去幾年在小米的收穫,張鐸坦誠表示:“我和小米算是互相成就。”他認爲自己做開源是跟着小米一起成長起來的,而小米集團副總裁、集團技術委員會主席"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.infoq.cn\/article\/3lX515pGG4NHh6XEskuW","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"崔寶秋"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"也是對他參與開源影響最大的人。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/infoq\/3e\/3ef4a207a65995fcaa18bd0094b36a02.jpeg","alt":null,"title":null,"style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":null,"fromPaste":true,"pastePass":true}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#a5a5a5","name":"user"}}],"text":"小米開源團隊成員(左一爲張鐸,右二爲崔寶秋)與Apache NuttX創始人、開發者的合影"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":"center","origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#a5a5a5","name":"user"}}],"text":"(照片由張鐸提供)"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在張鐸眼中,崔寶秋是開源的狂熱愛好者,一直對開源抱有堅定的信念。“他是比較有理想的人,一直覺得開源這個事情很多時候不光是爲了一家公司,也是爲了整個行業,甚至是爲人類做貢獻。而且他本身確實是比較中立的,目前國內能夠真正把大家牽起來一起做點事情的,只有寶秋總,其他誰都不行。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在小米的時候,崔寶秋一直非常支持張鐸搞開源。一開始張鐸單純只是寫寫代碼提交給開源社區,後來是在崔寶秋的影響下,他才真正深入去學習和了解開源背後的原因、開源的模式運作機制和開源的歷史等等。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"反過來,張鐸在開源社區中做的很多事情以及整個成長的軌跡,也佐證了崔寶秋對於開源的很多觀點是對的,即,只要能夠狠下精力培養工程師參與開源,中國企業也能夠真正深度參與到國際開源社區中去,並且在這個過程中,工程師個人和企業在開源社區的影響力也會不斷提升。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"不管是在小米工作期間(即便崔寶秋並不是張鐸的直屬領導),還是離開小米之後,張鐸跟崔寶秋都有很多直接交流。但其實張鐸跟崔寶秋的第一次照面早在2012年,那會張鐸離開網易的時候就面過小米,只是當時他選擇了去豌豆莢,沒有選小米。其中有一部分原因是因爲在面試的時候受到了“驚嚇”,當時他發現小米的一位面試官年紀明顯已經不小了,但還在面動態規劃的題目(一般只有還在一線寫代碼的人才會用這類問題考別人)。當時他嚇壞了,心裏犯嘀咕:這個公司這麼壓榨人嗎?這麼大年紀的人還在一線搞技術。後來張鐸才知道,那位面試官就是崔寶秋。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"而正是因爲有崔寶秋這樣一位非常支持開源的公司高層,過去這幾年小米一直大力投入開源並全力支持工程師搞開源。從商業視角和小米自身利益出發,張鐸認爲小米參與開源的出發點大概有三方面:"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"首先是通過參與開源打造公司的技術品牌,對吸引技術人才加入公司有好處。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"其次是爲了避免雲時代的技術綁定,即便是小米這個體量的公司,要建設和維護好自己的IDC也是有一定難度的,因爲體量比起雲廠商來說差太遠,自己做的優勢沒有那麼大,但如果上雲,肯定不可能都放在一家雲廠商上。多雲融合這個方向,大家目前探索出來的一條路就是開源共建模式,企業可以用開源和爲開源項目做貢獻,而開源的東西在不同雲廠商上面都能用,不會出現被某一家綁死的情況。本身雲廠商內部也會有一羣人在做開源,開源項目很多都會放到雲上支持,雖然各家雲廠商可能會用替換掉開源項目裏的部分東西以實現更好的性能等,但總體來說API還是會跟開源版本保持一致。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"最後一點是小米要推自己的物聯網軟件平臺Vela,而做平臺類軟件只有按照開源的模式來,才能吸引更多人使用,而有足夠多人使用纔有可能最終成爲標準。很多基礎類型、平臺類型的軟件都是這樣的思路。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“大廠如果跨不過這道坎,開源肯定做不好”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"當下開源在國內熱度空前,但與此同時,國內企業做開源也經常引發爭議,尤其是幾家頭部大廠。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在張鐸看來,大部分大廠做開源有個問題,他們最關心的是這個開源項目自己要能完全控制,想讓它怎麼樣就能怎麼樣。這個事情國內常見,國外其實也有,谷歌決定不把Istio捐給CNCF就是"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.infoq.cn\/article\/sfqN2agwW6eeYxkpGeBi","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"一例"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"。最初Kubernetes由谷歌捐贈給CNCF,但後來隨着越來越多企業加入社區參與貢獻,谷歌已經無法完全掌控Kubernetes的發展走向了,所以前陣子谷歌折騰了半天,決定給Istio單獨搞一個新的基金會,而不是按照原計劃捐給CNCF,其他企業意見就很大,微軟馬上跳出來說做了一個跟Istio差不多的開源項目,讓大家都來用。大廠在這方面確實會搖擺,張鐸認爲,“但凡大廠放不下這個負擔、跨不過這道坎,覺得項目就必須得自己掌控,這個項目開源肯定做不好。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"站在別人的角度看,如果某個項目一直是由單一企業控制,那自己投入的工作很可能因爲這個主導企業的一個想法全部白費,它肯定不敢對這個項目投入很大精力。這種做法也不是開源的打法,肯定是不Work的,"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"開源最重要的是要吸引別人來用和參與貢獻,而不是把源代碼開放出去給大家用就完事。"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸表示,"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"一個開源項目最優的狀態還是有一個主要的公司在支持,但是這家公司並不是對這個項目完全掌控,而是有很多人和企業都能參與進來發表意見,都能影響這個項目的走向,這種狀態下大家才願意投入"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":";同時這個公司也能保證一定的支持力度,保證這個項目有足夠的開發人員支持,這是比較好的狀態。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"“還有一點就是不要把開源當成KPI”,張鐸直言,曾經有一段時間阿里在這方面就做得不好,扔出來很多項目其實是在內部競爭失敗的,然後扔出來了就不管了,這種情況也不可能指望別人好好去用這個項目,而且還會敗壞公司的名聲。“有很長一段時間,甚至到現在,還是有一些人覺得阿里開源的項目不敢用,因爲過兩天就不管了。這個名聲一旦搞壞了,後面想扳回來很困難。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"不過張鐸認爲阿里現在新的開源項目其實都做得很不錯,比如他們主導的Dubbo、Flink,基本都是按照開源那套玩法來,社區活躍度也很高。他表示,現在阿里相當於找到了雲和開源結合的點,一邊支持開源,一邊支持自己的商業模式,找到了能把開源和公司利益結合在一起做好的一條路,這樣就挺好。“開源不能太陽春白雪,你不可能希望大公司都做慈善吧?像小米支持Nuttx、支持操作系統,也是因爲有利益在裏面。你總得讓大家能用開源賺錢,對吧?只是得遵循開源基本的規律,能把開源玩起來,然後再把自己的訴求放進去,而不是隻考慮自己的訴求。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"張鐸始終認爲,"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.zhihu.com\/question\/394259343\/answer\/1257714251","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“開源項目的成功,技術只佔很小一部分。”"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"同樣的,國內開源要健康發展,只靠寫代碼的人也不夠。談及國內開源發展現狀,他的感覺是“偏科偏得很厲害”,在他看來,中國做開源的開發者並不少,但是在開源生態建設、開源社區運營和開源合規法務這些方面,國內明顯偏弱,相關人才也特別少,非常不平衡。張鐸作爲開放原子開源基金會的TOC成員,非常希望基金會能成爲培養這方面人才的平臺,不過現階段基金會運轉顯然比國外成熟的開源基金會差很遠。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在他看來,目前基金會運作得最順暢的主要就是TOC,還是一幫搞技術的人,很多非技術的事情也是這幫人在搞。基金會的法務這塊,明顯還是按照公司法務的玩法,而不是開源基金會的法務的做法。特別明顯的一點就是,做事情的時候不是考慮說這是一個開源項目應該怎麼做,而是說跟這個開源項目籤協議的時候要維護基金會的利益,把基金會當成了他工作的一個公司。公司法務的工作職責就是要維護公司的利益,會在協議中埋一些條款把自己摘得乾乾淨淨,但換到開源基金會,同樣的做法就會導致跟很多企業溝通開源項目捐贈協議時難度變大,因爲各自都要維護自家利益,最終怎麼也談不攏。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"不得不承認,當前國內開源發展確實存在一些短板,由中國開發者主導的開源項目中,真正做到在全球範圍內形成一定影響力的項目還很少。但總體來說,張鐸對國內開源發展的未來還是看好的,他認爲只要中國本身以及中文在全世界的影響力不斷變大,中國開發者做的開源項目影響力自然也會變大,就像原來根本不可能出現一箇中國的App在全世界流行,但現在Tiktok就做到了,這個過程不可能一蹴而就,只能慢慢來。在他看來,在人工智能、自動駕駛等新興技術領域,中國最終肯定會出來很重量級的開源項目,當然也有前提條件,“只要內部大家別跑歪了。”"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.infoq.cn\/resource\/image\/1c\/4b\/1c9167383eccac617a53e6cc0b701f4b.jpeg","alt":null,"title":"","style":[{"key":"width","value":"75%"},{"key":"bordertype","value":"none"}],"href":"","fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"【編者按】"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"每一位開源參與者、每一個開源項目都可以成爲舞臺上的主角。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"新的一波開源浪潮正在席捲中國,【開源聚光燈】是InfoQ重點打造的開源主題欄目,旨在通過新聞、系列訪談、用戶調查、迷你書、視頻等形式深入觀察開源運動,圍繞開源的價值和開源開發模式,與投身開源的每一個個體共同探討開源發展現狀,照亮每一個開源舞臺上的參與者。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"如果你有開源故事或對開源的深刻觀點想要分享、或開源項目想要尋求報道,歡迎聯繫微信caifangfang842852(請註明姓名和來由)。"}]}]}]}
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