騰訊雲TKE：有效幫助企業上雲降本增效｜QCon

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"雲原生是大勢所趨。沒有云原生之前，CPU 平均資源利用率可能也就 10%，但上雲之後，做得好的廠商能到 40%，頭部廠商甚至能做到 60%，計算成本相當於有四五倍的節省。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"既然成本節省效果這麼顯著，爲什麼有些企業或者企業內部的個別業務在上雲前還會有各種顧慮呢？雲廠商又有哪些具體的解決方案能打消用戶的這些顧慮？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"針對這些問題，"},{"type":"text","text":"InfoQ 記者有幸"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在 "},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/qcon.infoq.cn\/2021\/beijing\/","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"QCon 2021 全球軟件開發大會"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"上採訪到了騰訊雲容器技術總監於廣遊"},{"type":"text","text":"，和他聊了聊 Kubernetes、企業上雲的顧慮以及騰訊雲 TKE 的特點等話題。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"以下是視頻採訪的全部內容，爲方便讀者查看，視頻下方也附上了文字內容。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"embedcomp","attrs":{"type":"video","data":{"id":"385365","name":"於廣遊.mp4","poster":"","url":"https:\/\/media001.geekbang.org\/dccc8af1a9a7449abc80d859a03ff977\/b1808bf559504e42a90696cf1e945586-17186ae0fc1f2d3acef7a0867bce1025-sd.m3u8"}}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：於老師您好，歡迎您參加QCon並接受我們的採訪，請您先自我介紹一下吧。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：好的，我是2014年就加入騰訊的，一直在騰訊工作。一開始是做虛擬化存儲，2017年開始做容器，從那會兒到現在主要做了兩件事情，一個是騰訊的容器服務從0到1的建設，一個是騰訊內部業務的全面上雲。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：關於雲原生的概念，網上有很多解釋，我聽過一個解釋說“雲”指的是應用程序就在雲中，而不是傳統的數據中心裏面。“原生”表示應用程序從設計的一開始就考慮到雲的環境，原生就是爲雲而設計的，您覺得這種說法準確嗎？您是怎麼理解雲原生的？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：我覺得這個說法準確是準確，但是沒有指導意義。什麼意思呢？比如當我們說一個筆是幹什麼用的，我說我有一個筆，是專門爲iPad設計的，那它代表了什麼呢？聽衆從這裏得不到任何有效信息。至於我是怎麼理解雲原生的，我認爲雲原生可以從它的目的，它的組成和它的特質來說起。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"雲原生的目的非常簡單，就是讓企業最大化地降低成本和提升效率。但它更強調的是在雲的環境中應用新的技術，來提高效率和降低成本。所以它會有一系列的技術組合，那它由什麼組合而成呢？就是微服務技術、服務網格（Service Mesh）等等。剛纔說的這些就是它的目的以及它的組成。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"另外，我覺得最關鍵的一個點，大家聊得不是特別多。那就是雲原生的特質是什麼？我覺得雲原生的特質一定是開源、開放、中立的，天生就是多雲的。很多企業內部會說自己是雲原生的，但是它自己所謂的雲原生，可能是自己全部造了這樣的一套東西。但是雲原生在一開始就強調你應當是開源的、中立的、多雲的、無綁定的。我覺得這個是它非常關鍵的一個特質。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：還有一種觀點說"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/kubernetes.io\/","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"Kubernetes"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"是下一代的操作系統，你怎麼看待這個觀點呢？怎麼理解這裏提到的操作系統這個詞？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：我覺得這個理解是非常貼切的。操作系統是幹什麼用的？它是一個程序，對硬件進行抽象和封裝，那開發者用它的時候就非常簡單了。CPU是獨佔的，內存是平坦的，硬件直接去讀I\/O就行了。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"Kubernetes也是幹這樣的事情，沒有Kubernetes之前，我們對雲資源的操縱，都是要管雲主機、雲硬盤。Kubernetes出現之後，其實把這一層也進行了抹平。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"而且從技術發展趨勢上幾乎也是一致的。在沒有操作系統之前，開發者需要在一臺裸機上對內存、硬件進行各種各樣的調度。在沒有Kubernetes之前也是這樣的，操作系統從一開始只支持服務器，慢慢開始延伸到支持客戶端，支持各種各樣的設備，Kubernetes也是在進行這樣的延伸。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"操作系統裏面，支持各種各樣的插件，支持各種各樣的運行場景，Kubernetes也在這樣做，所以把它比喻成新的操作系統，或者是雲原生操作系統，我覺得是非常非常貼切的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：您能給大家簡單介紹一下騰訊雲的"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/cloud.tencent.com\/product\/tke","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"TKE"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"嗎？它適合什麼樣的業務場景，又有什麼優勢呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：TKE就是一個前面提到的Kubernetes的託管服務。簡單來說，一個企業要做雲原生，首先要有Kubernetes集羣，在Kubernetes集羣之上，再提供一個PaaS平臺，在PaaS平臺之上，要進行業務容器化，那TKE解決的就是最下面這一層問題，讓你能夠非常輕鬆地構建自己的PaaS平臺。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"它有什麼樣的特點呢？我總結了靈活、硬核、開源三個詞。“靈活”是怎麼說呢？因爲TKE在內外部用的時候，特別是內部，我們支撐了金融、遊戲等等非常多樣化的業務，這就保證了TKE的功能是非常靈活的，支持非常多的不同網絡模式，支持各種各樣的環境，用戶基本能在上面獲取自己想要的任何功能，如果不滿足也可自行二次定製。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"“硬核”是說在這個過程中，我們打造出了非常多的能力。比如說有對資源的全面QoS的能力，比如說CPU、內存方面的QoS。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"“開源”是什麼呢？我們前面提到雲原生的特質就是開源，開發了一個這樣的產品，結果你非要把用戶綁定起來肯定是不行的，那TKE就是踐行了一個開源和開放的策略，我們有一個開源的工程叫TKEStack，我們把TKE中打磨的Kubernetes版本，也就是TKE發行版，在社區進行公佈。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"大概就是這三個特點。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：在TKE上構建業務，是不是要求應用必須是雲原生的呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：可以不是雲原生，但是你的收益沒有那麼大。因爲業務上Kubernetes或者說上TKE的過程中，是有大量的歷史包袱和中間態的，你的業務可能都已經沒有人維護了。那這種情況下，我們開發了一系列比如原地重啓、固定IP、指定更新等等大量的特性去兼容這種非雲原生的業務。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"但是在你不雲原生的情況下，你的彈性、容錯各方面其實收益都是沒有那麼好的。無論如何，你不雲原生也可以上TKE，但收益相對就小一點。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：在騰訊自研業務全面上雲的過程中，主要挑戰有哪些呢？你們是怎麼解決的？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：我覺得主要挑戰有三個方面組成。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第一個就是到底要不要雲原生，其實也沒有這麼大的話題，說白了就是到底要不要用Kubernetes。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"因爲在2018年之前，騰訊內部每一個事業羣都有自己自研的調度平臺。所以大家花了大量時間討論未來要基於什麼樣的技術棧，公司要基於什麼樣的技術棧，這其實花了非常大的精力。最終就決定全面上雲原生，全面上TKE，這是第一個困難點，一般情況下，這一步就需要自上而下進行推動。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第二個點，就是前面我提到的，公司內部要上公有云，但IDC裏還有存量設備，又有金融、遊戲業務，有非常多的業務，這些不同的業務上TKE的時候，需求是不一致的。怎麼解決這個問題是非常大的難點。我們也給出了一些方案，最下面用TKE，中間開源協同，最上面各自定製，取了這樣一種中間態。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第三個就是真正開始去上雲的過程中，會有一個陣痛，比如說穩定性，或者業務方覺得收益反倒沒有那麼高等等這一系列的問題。這就需要業務團隊和技術團隊進行大量的配合，在內部進行大量的宣傳、討論、實踐，這其實是非常困難的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：雲原生對於企業來說，在節省成本方面，能達到什麼樣的效果呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：我感覺從雲原生的目的就能看到。雲原生的目的就是爲了讓企業能夠利用雲的能力最大化地降本增效，雲原生確實能夠給業務節省非常多的成本。比如說，業務在沒有容器化改造之前，沒有上Kubernetes之前，沒有云原生之前，CPU平均資源利用率可能也就10%，但你容器化之後，做得好的能到40%，頭部廠商甚至能做到60%，計算成本相當於有四五倍的節省。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"但是，反過來說，我們調研的時候發現大多數企業的雲原生實際上給他們帶來的成本收益沒有那麼多，原因就是前面提到的，沒有進行雲原生化的改造就去上容器，就去上Kubernetes，所以獲得的收益就小很多。我們也有一系列的產品和服務，告訴大家怎麼用好雲原生，怎麼用好Kubernetes，怎麼去降本。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：企業在決定是否上雲的過程中，猶豫的點主要有哪些？你們又怎麼去幫助他們打消這些疑慮呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：大家的主要疑慮主要是還是投入、產出、綁定這些方面，當然也有一些技術團隊會有我自己會不會被替代這樣的焦慮，基本上大家的疑慮就是這四部分。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"先說投入和產出的這一塊。一部分是行業，一部分是客戶，大家對雲原生的認知有提升，這一塊的顧慮也就越來越小了，大家知道雲原生能夠獲得非常好的收益。另一方面，我們提供了非常多的上雲的服務，容器化改造方面的服務，也包括一些專家諮詢來降低用戶的投入的成本。前面提到我們還有一系列降本的能力，能提高他的收益，最終讓他成本投入低，收益比較高。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"至於後兩個點，一個是比較高層次的顧慮，一個是一線同學的顧慮。一個是上雲會不會綁定、上TKE會不會綁定。第二個是上TKE，會不會說我團隊的技術實力就消失了。前面提到，雲原生的特質就是開放、中立和多雲的，所以你上雲原生，可以讓你更加不會被綁定，這其實是從公司內部的封閉體系接入了新的開放體系，你的企業發展是會更好的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"至於最後一個點，也就是具體的執行人員會覺得我是不是可能被替代掉。其實我們前面也提到了，我們定位是幫用戶更好地構建自己的PaaS平臺，不是幫用戶解決所有的問題，我們要解決用戶雲原生過程中他們比較困難的問題。實際上我們是他的服務者，而不是替代者。我們也提到TKE非常靈活，大部分都是開源的，我們和很多客戶進行了技術共建。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"這裏說的這四個點，應該是能打消大家的顧慮。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ：您剛纔提到技術團隊比較擔憂自己被替代的問題，那隨着雲原生產品與技術的發展，企業對傳統運維人員有什麼新的要求呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"於廣遊：我覺得這個替代，應該分成兩個層級來說，一個是上雲原生，上容器。我不能自建了，技術實力會不會被替代，大家都自動化了，運維該怎麼去看這個事情。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我是這樣想的，就是從歷史上看，任何一次科技進步，都是通過高效的手段來去替代一些低效的手工的過程。比如工業和手工業的區別，雲跟自建的區別。雲原生相比於傳統運維，就是這樣的一個改變，這個趨勢是不可逆轉的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"正是因爲不可逆轉，這個趨勢中就有非常多的機會，比如說一個傳統的運維，你主動去轉型，在公司內部推廣雲原生，那雲原生在公司的本地化落地會有非常多的問題，你能不能去做這樣的本地化。正是因爲這個東西在發展的過程中，所以是有非常多的技術紅利的，如果你去抓住它，你會成爲這樣的一個弄潮兒。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"第二個點，技術成長上會不會有問題。在沒有云原生之前，很多企業會自研自己的調度系統，自研內部的系統，很多企業甚至會自己開發。事實上，有云原生之後，確實會對自建產生一些衝擊，但是回到剛纔說的，你是把一個公司的技術體系從一個封閉的循環接入這樣一個開放的大的循環，大家可以做的事情是更多了，而不是更少了。我們可以更精確地去追求效率，而不是反覆去做從0到1的追蹤，這個對技術人員的提升是非常棒的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在這個過程中，希望所有的技術人員，不光是研發、運維，就像之前Linux普及我們要學習Linux，現在Kubernetes普及我們要去學習Kubernetes一樣，大家也要抓住這個浪潮，成爲這個浪潮中的弄潮兒。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"InfoQ：好的，謝謝於老師。"}]}]}