端点科技吴小伟：提升研发效能，需要回归到组织里看整体｜QCon

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在企业数字化转型的浪潮下，无论是传统行业还是互联网行业，研发效能都是一个备受关注的大热点。但在这样的时代背景下，依旧有人并没有真正理解“效能”是什么？它与效率的区别又是什么？市场上的研效工具层出不穷，企业该如何结合自身架构进行选择？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"带着这些疑问，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#303030","name":"user"}}],"text":"InfoQ 记者有幸在"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/qcon.infoq.cn\/2021\/shanghai?utm_source=infoq&utm_medium=conference","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"QCon 2021 全球软件开发大会"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#303030","name":"user"}}],"text":"上，采访到了"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"端点科技"}]},{"type":"text","text":"合伙人兼资深技术专家吴小伟老师，和他聊了聊与研发效能相关的话题。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"以下是视频采访的全部内容，为方便读者查看，视频下方也附上了文字内容。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"embedcomp","attrs":{"type":"video","data":{"id":"431627","name":"端点_2.mp4","poster":"","url":"https:\/\/media001.geekbang.org\/ae98d61fc28c4cc4bed98dc2fd42e1a0\/ef07efde71d0404ca0f10c0d10f0983f-72b266acb43e085e23bd3c5a3c9db932-sd.m3u8"}}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"请吴老师先和InfoQ的观众朋友做下自我介绍。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吴小伟："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我之前在阿里的花名是一啸，在阿里的八年时间一直做基础软件的研发，比如大数据相关的软件、中间件，包括数据库也有涉及，更多地是在做容器技术。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"关于为何选择创业，相信大家都能看出来：在过去十年中，ToC的市场特别好，但最近ToB市场变得异常火爆。所以，我个人也希望能够投身到ToB领域中，2018年我就选择从阿里出来，围绕研发平台继续做基础软件。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"目前，研发效能成了行业内备受关注的领域，包括腾讯云、阿里等很多大厂也都在该领域纷纷发力，各大厂商开始关注研发效能的原因您认为是什么？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吴小伟："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"企业的数字化转型是当今时代的大潮。转型之前，企业的业务系统大多属于稳态业务，即长时间处于不变化、非变化状态。但当数字化转型过后，这些业务变得更加敏态，这就意味着对业务系统的快速迭代、快速创新能力的要求越来越高，而数字化系统的底层驱动力一定是研发，各大厂商切入研发管理这个领域也都是想把握这个底层的驱动力。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"除此以外，在数字化转型之后，很多做传统业务的公司会变成一个科技公司，但IT人员的规模则是这类公司与科技公司最大的不同点。此时，研发效能就发挥着更大的作用，它的未来想象空间非常大，这也是为什么各大厂商包括我们在内，都在研发效能赛道上努力往前面冲的另一大原因。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"现在市场上研发工具越来越多，和其它同类型的产品相比，"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/product\/5","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"Erda"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"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市场的竞争越来越激烈了，对 PaaS 市场的未来您抱有怎样的看法？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"吴小伟："},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"在未来，多云、混合云一定会成为非常关键的场景，如果能够基于多云的环境构建PaaS，那么一定有非常大的机会。此外，由于aPaaS才真正解决了生产力问题，以前写一个软件可能要一万行代码，现在只需要写一千行代码，甚至未来可能出现更颠覆式创造软件的方式，所以aPaaS这层也是一个非常大的赛道。今天出现的很多LowCode平台都在做这一层，所以在我们公司，Erda是聚焦于做iPaaS这一层，来解决底层基础设施、研发效能问题。在Erda之上，我们还将发力的重点聚焦在了aPaaS层面，推出了"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.terminus.io\/product\/2","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"Trantor"}],"marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：面向未来，软件架构的复杂性、软件规模以及研发团队的规模都将持续上涨，您认为行业会面临怎样的挑战？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"吴小伟：应用层软件越来越复杂的趋势是不可避免的，在实现数字化过后，企业从供应链到销售端的全链路会变得很复杂，这对底层平台来说是一个全新的挑战。所以不管是Erda还是同类的研效工具，未来能否管理更大规模的软件复杂度，管理更大的研发团队，必然会成为市场对我们的要求。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"但软件越来越复杂这个趋势能否被改变才是更重要的事，未来能否出现一些颠覆性的技术，可以用更简单的方式来研发软件，即一个人可以完成十个人的研发工作，这其实才能把软件的复杂性和研发团队的规模降低。包括我们刚才提到，未来很多传统行业的公司都可能转型成为科技公司，他们的研发人员应该不会从底层开始写代码，而会站在最顶端，用最简单的方式去写他们想要的软件代码。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我个人认为从业人员更应该降低软件复杂度，而不是软件变复杂了，我就要提供一个更强大的平台，这治标不治本。今天人工智能发展也挺快的，某一天是否可以用人工智能的技术更好地写代码也是极有可能的。所以，我觉得未来软件研发应该会出现新的方向，而不是像今天这样任其演变地更复杂。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"：谢谢吴老师接受采访，也再一次欢迎您参加Qcon，期待下一次还能在Qcon见到您。"}]}]}