融云杨攀：经营To B企业，如何寻求产品、商业与技术的平衡？

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"口述 | 杨攀"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"整理 | 李梦、蔡芳芳"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#7b7f83","name":"user"}}],"text":"2021 年 5 月 21-22 日，极客邦旗下科技领导者高端社区 TGO 鲲鹏会主办的 "},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/gtlc.infoq.cn\/2021\/shanghai\/presentation\/3537","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"GTLC 全球技术领导力峰会全球总站"}]},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#7b7f83","name":"user"}}],"text":" 在上海成功举办，吸引全国各地 600 多位 CTO、技术 VP 等科技领导者参与。会上，融云联合创始人、TGO鲲鹏会北京分会会长杨攀做了主题为《经营ToB企业，如何寻求产品、商业与技术的平衡》的演讲分享，深入探讨了关于ToB业务的一些认知，并从取舍和排序以及客户成功等角度讨论了产品、技术和商业三者平衡的问题。我们将演讲内容整理如下，以飨读者。"}]}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"简单做一下自我介绍，我叫杨攀，是"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/www.rongcloud.cn\/","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"融云"}]},{"type":"text","text":"联合创始人和 CTO。融云最核心的产品是即时通讯云平台，开发者可以通过 SDK 和服务端 API 把通讯能力集成到自己产品中。我今天要分享的题目是《经营 ToB 企业，如何寻求产品、商业与技术的平衡》。今天是全球技术领导力峰会，大家作为管理者可能都非常关心这个问题。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"我今天主要分享几块内容，第一是关于 ToB 的认知，我发现大家聊的 ToB 都不是同一个 ToB，所以要对齐一下；第二，既然我们要做分析，就先把产品、技术还有商业分别是什么说清楚；然后，讲讲商业本质是什么，讲讲排序和取舍问题；最后做一个脑力激荡，看看客户成功到底是什么。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"一些关于 To B 认知的对齐"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"首先，大家非常嗨地互相喊 To B 的时候，你们可能是说的完全不是同一个东西。To B 有很多维度，我认为最准确的定义是服务面对的群体是组织而不是个人，这是 To B 和 To C 业务最大的区别。做 To B 的人可能会说我是做 SaaS、做信息化等等各种各样，但是有一个共同的特点就是我们都是有“客户爸爸”的人，而对做 ToC 的来说，“用户就是上帝”。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/wechat\/images\/c1\/c12651a954274a5e11a3fc1449d3e030.jpeg","alt":null,"title":null,"style":null,"href":null,"fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"ToB 的分类方式有很多，从云服务的角度可以分为 IaaS、PaaS、SaaS；根据业务形态可以分为低代码、云通信、文档协作，还有各种新的业务形态；根据行业分类，昨天会议有讲到可以帮助传统企业去做数字化转型，深入金融、地产、物流、医疗等各个行业。如果根据客户体量分，也有不同的商业形态，可以服务大客户、做定制化，也可以做中小微群体，提供标准化产品；甚至，To B 也可以服务于个人，比如在线协作文档，个人用户也可以注册，很多个人用户使用的效率工具其实也都是 To B 的产品。所以，大家以后聊 To B 的时候，可以再聚焦一下，更有益于聊出一些实际性内容，看我们聊的 ToB 到底是什么东西。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"我认为今年是 To B 的元年，其实每一年都有人说 To B 元年，最早听到 To B 元年是 2015 年，融云成立于 2014 年，但是我认为真正的 To B 元年确实是由今年开始，主要有四个论点。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/wechat\/images\/19\/19a68d7dcd6b6b20bce890988c99a110.jpeg","alt":null,"title":null,"style":null,"href":null,"fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第一是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"流量，"},{"type":"text","text":"大家都知道，To C 流量已经基本耗尽了，整个互联网流量没有什么增长，而且还有很强的头部聚集效应，流量都跑到微信、抖音、小红书、拼多多、B 站这些大 App 里面去了。在我们服务的整个互联网客户群体中，听到最多的抱怨就是买不到流量、流量太贵，To C 产业目前遇到了非常大的发展困境。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第二，产业如果要发展得好，需要"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"人才。"},{"type":"text","text":"To C 行业现在严重内卷，小团队基本不做 To C 业务了，逐渐向 To B 行业溢出；To B 领域目前硅谷是全球的高地，硅谷的人才这两年也一直在向国内溢出；还有在中国的外企 SAP、Saleforce 等也会把他们的经验带到市场里。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第三是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"资本，"},{"type":"text","text":"资本是最“嗜血”的，哪里利润最高就去哪里。由于 To C 业务发展已经遭遇瓶颈，机会不多了，因此 To C 的资本也在向 To B 溢出。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"最后，"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"疫情"},{"type":"text","text":"也是一个催化剂，如果没有疫情的话，To B 的发展可能会是一个缓慢的过程，有疫情以后可能是跳跃性发展。疫情让企业、政府管理者意识到信息化、数字化是必须的，如果不做可能连疫情都过不去，甚至不要提企业的数字化转型。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"产品、技术和商业分别解决什么？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"产品负责解决“做什么成”的问题，需要通过市场研究、竞争分析、客户研究、商业策划、产品定义、运营数据等一系列手段为业务寻找具体的方向，产品团队需要在公司战略的指引下通过这一系列方法找到要做的正确的事情。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"技术负责解决“做成什么”，关注业务技术的实现细节，其目标是把要做的事情实现好，用最低的成本、最高的效率交付最高质量的东西。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"商业则负责解决“怎么做成”的问题，商业团队的目标是把做出来的东西效益最大化，找到客户、目标用户群，用好的模式复制销售、对品牌进行宣传和推广，还有商业、销售、市场、包装、推广等等。这里的商业主要是狭义的商业概念。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/wechat\/images\/ff\/ff1f6c645b600a8e261b9e0013b89aa5.jpeg","alt":null,"title":null,"style":null,"href":null,"fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"取舍和排序"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“商业的本质是增长与效率，战略的本质是取舍与排序”，这句话我能找到最早的出处是前些年卫哲在阿里巴巴接受媒体采访时说的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"取舍和排序很复杂，时间有限就挑几个话题展开。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"image","attrs":{"src":"https:\/\/static001.geekbang.org\/wechat\/images\/ab\/abaa4972b055d934be44d734a8086f4c.jpeg","alt":null,"title":null,"style":null,"href":null,"fromPaste":false,"pastePass":false}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第一种是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"客户驱动，"},{"type":"text","text":"我相信所有做 ToB 业务的管理者包括公司负责人，最最痛苦的事情之一就是客户需求把你压死。客户需求来了是做还是不做？客户要定制做还是不做？从客户成功角度来说，我认为客户驱动肯定是对的，客户开心了你就成功了。但是客户驱动比较大问题是只能帮助你在功能层面精进，客户驱动累积出来的产品往往偏离了公司的战略核心方向。被客户驱动左右的商业，其管理层没有想清楚自己的战略目标，否则不会被客户推动着走，不会将客户驱动变成自己核心的行动方向。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"但是客户驱动有另外一个好处，融云历史上每年都会通过客户提的需求发现一个潜在的商业领域，把它做成标准化、普适性的产品，进而在今后几年中为我们开辟新的收入场景和领域。所以客户需求一定要看，但要仔细思考客户需求到底是什么，跟战略方向是否一致。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第二种是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"对手驱动，"},{"type":"text","text":"对手很多没有想明白的东西发布出来了，我们就抄，抄出来才发现不对。其实每家企业的思考路径是不同的，方向、底层逻辑、各方面资源都不一样，所以纯抄是没有任何意义。看对手是应该的，但是要从自己的战略层面去思考。战术层面可以学习，但战略层面一定要有自己的思考。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第三种是"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"战略驱动，"},{"type":"text","text":"这是所有管理者应该做的，但这往往是长期的事情，短期内不会很容易就能获得成功的正反馈。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"另外还有两个建议，我们公司从 2019 年下半年开始尝试 OKR，大家都知道 OKR 是帮助我们对齐任务，做管理的。我们没有做全员 OKR，做的是经理以上层级的 OKR。OKR 对我们公司最大的帮助是可以在各种客户需求的压力下，保证自己既定战略目标方向有足够多的资源，保证它可以坚持执行下去。这是我们公司 OKR 的目的，因为平时会有各种需求压得你喘不过气来，但是 OKR 定下来的目标，一定要努力去完成，这是底线。还有一个建议是可以划分不同的 Team，每个 Team 有自己专注的目标，Team A 做公司主线核心内容，Team B 去接客户时不时提出的、不确定的需求，这样做能够把资源隔离开来，进而保证目标一致。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"客户成功！= 客户成功"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"最后再聊聊客户成功。标题中两个客户成功其实有两个不同的概念。具体满足客户需求的事情，是具体的客户成功，如果满足了十个客户需求，可以说这十个客户成功了，但是这么做往往会耗尽公司所有资源，导致该让所有客户成功的事情没有做好。所以在做任何选择取舍的时候都要想想，你在做的是几个客户的成功还是所有客户的成功，这就是你要看大还是看小的问题。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"再聊几个细节问题，大家可以回忆下见过的 ToB 公司，是销售团队强势？还是产品团队强势还? 是技术团队强势？我见过很多公司是销售团队说了算的，那基本就等于客户说了算，这个涉及刚才讨论的客户需求的问题。产品和技术强势的团队，相对来说长期赛跑的能力更强，因为可以相对关注在自己的技术目标上。但是产品和技术强势也会有一个问题，就是不太倾听客户的声音，没有那么好机会去持续精进自己的东西。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"最后一个问题是，产品技术不行就靠服务补，文档不够就靠人来培训，工具不够就让运维人员上，这明显就是战术勤奋、战略懒惰的问题。我想大家都明白，但明白是明白，实际工作中可能永远平衡不了。"}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":2},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"总结"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"今天分享的主题是平衡，即到底要投入多少资源到公司该做的事情上。这个问题从公司不同层面的人来看，是完全不一样的。从底层视角看是博弈，也就是抢资源，这一点资源该做我的事情？还是该做他的事情？该做客户 A 的事情？还是做客户 B 的事情？中层视角是做选择，哪方面该做哪方面不该做。高层视角则不关心选择的问题，关心的是选择的逻辑，要走的大方向到底是什么？公司使命是什么？这个阶段战略到底是什么？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"实际上，平衡只是一个状态，它不对结果负责。我们最终要的是公司所有资源协调一致，把所有力量都贯穿使用在公司的战略目标方向上，这是大家常讲的“一点压强最大”。把该做的事情做透，这其实是一个最佳的状态，也是真正的平衡。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"如果一个公司把所有事情都做“平衡”了，也许可以换一个词，就是“和谐”。“和谐”是你好我好大家好，但可能公司就不好。说到底还是选择问题，真正伟大、曾经伟大和正在伟大的企业其实都是有所为有所不为的，作为企业的负责人一定要想清楚这一点。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"最后回归到一点，我们不一定要满足所有客户需求，但是客户成功理念一定要贯穿 To B 企业始终。因为客户成功并不是满足所有需求，而是要让客户成功贯穿企业经营的所有方面，包括服务体系能否让客户满意、产品细节是否好用等等。满足客户需求最后未必能成功，大家需要区分好里面的关系。如果大家对 To B 创业还有任何想要讨论的话题，可以线下跟我一起讨论，谢谢大家。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"演讲嘉宾介绍："}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"杨攀，融云联合创始人和 CTO，TGO 鲲鹏会（北京）负责人，即时通讯和社交领域专家，拥有多年大规模即时通讯产品和大规模社交产品设计和研发经验。曾参与微软 MSN Messenger Moblie China 业务的开发和管理工作，负责过时光网架构升级和改造工作。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2008 年加入神州泰岳飞信团队后，历任总监、高级总监，先后负责了飞信社交平台、飞信开放平台、飞信即时通讯平台业务的管理工作和研发管理工作。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"2014 年联合创立融云，向开发者提供面向全球的即时通讯云服务。目前在融云主要负责公司的产品和研发的工作。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"活动推荐："},{"type":"text","text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"大鹏学社是 TGO 鲲鹏会携手长江商学院推出的，旨在培养团队领导者卓越科技思维的商学课。目前，已经有 TGO 鲲鹏会会员、易观 CTO 郭炜和 TGO 鲲鹏会会员、涛思数据创始人陶建辉加入。期待和你一起，在大鹏学社学习成长。"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/tgo.infoq.cn\/dapeng","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"点击了解详情"}]}]}]}